I know I don't often post on this board so this post might be ignored. But I question how the initial experiment was flawed. The experiment was conducted using the information at hand. The baking temperature used was even slightly lower then the average baking temperature. If Jane Doe was baking a recipe or box mix from, she would follow the directions and most likely bake at 350. These pans would, by admission of the manufacture, provide poor results under those circumstances. Therefore, the initial experiment was not flawed. The only way it would have been flawed is if the pans had instructions to bake at a lower temperature and the baker did not.
Also to add my personal experience, the Fat Daddio pans have not been successful for me. I ordered some last year because they were the only pans I was able to get a 7 inch square in. I bake from scratch with recipes that I have spent years perfecting. Most of my recipes are baked at 325 with a couple baked at 275. Every time I have baked in the FD pans, I have gotten a hump. My cakes bake flat in my ML, Wilton and Calphalon pans. The other issue I have had with the FD pans is that they bake with a much lighter crumb and the edges of the cakes are often crumbly. Because of these reasons, I have chosen not to purchase more FD pans. However, I will say that I have several friends who love the FD pans and won't use any others now. So in reality, I think it is a good idea for any baker to experiment with the different brands of pans and see which works best for you.
meldancer Frequent Member
Joined: Mar 08, 2007
Posts: 243
Location: Vinton, IA
Posted:
Tue May 27, 2008 5:20 pm
I think this is a prime example of the one-sided censoring that goes on here at CC. Whether it be product evaluations, beliefs or simple opinions on how to make a cake, all opinions need to be valued and accepted or the forum doesn't serve a purpose.
Too many times people's opinions have been dismissed, bashed and feelings have been hurt because the fairness is one-sided. Many have left CC due to this, how many more need to leave before this is resolved? Opinions are just that, opinions. When you post a question, you are going to get several views and opinions. Isn't that why you posted to begin with? Isn't that the purpose of the forum?
MeMo07 Regular Member
Joined: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 157
Posted:
Tue May 27, 2008 5:26 pm
But it's Cake Centrals board...they pay for it- therefore, they have the final say so in what happens. Most sites adhere to a strict policy of CYA.
And not to be hateful, but honestly, it's up to their judgement and if you don't like it, you don't HAVE to deal with it.
I read through this post pretty fast. I did not see the initial experiement. However I think that Greg from FD handled himself very professionally. If his pans are used for an experiment, I think it is only fair to let him respond to the findings.
For fairness to be one-sided, there must be some "side" you feel we are on.
What side is it exactly that we are on?
Considering we provide a free service, that we attempt to keep clean, family-friendly, and fun, I would say that we are on the "side" of the cake central members.
Some people who have left feel we over-moderate, others who have left felt we did not moderate enough. We cannot possibly make everyone happy all of the time. The Admins and moderators of CakeCentral have to make tons of moderating decisions every day, and we will not always make popular decisions, and we will not always make the correct decision. We just do the best we can to be as fair and consistent as we can. It takes a number of people to moderate this site, and we all will view issues differently.
GregSkipper Newbie
Joined: Aug 15, 2007
Posts: 13
Posted:
Tue May 27, 2008 6:15 pm
Cake Diva,
I understand your concerns but please know that the reason we made the pans we did were because of the benefits of anodizing. Those benefits being a safer, more durable, and attractive finish. In addition, we eliminated the welds to provide a consistent heat transferance and more durable pan that eliminates the potential of welds leaking on the inside and splitting or weakening over time. Take a loo at the inside corners of ML pans and you will see slight weld penetration on the insides of various pans. This is just another area that can cause food accumulation and potential problems. Again, I restate that ML is a great pan. I simply believe that the changes I made were for the benefit of our customers and make FD's a better choice.
An added benefit that we did not anticipate is the efficiencies in baking time and temperature. Since we are now aware of this we are making efforts to let people now of this benefit. However it is a feature we have to be careful of how we go to market with. Its a darned if you do darned if you don't situation. Because of the variances in baking styles, recipes, ingredients and equipment each persons experience is slightly different. That is exactly why you sill notice Magic Line and most every other pan manufacturer do not give specific temperature information. We are simply going to step out and start informing our customers that our pans are more efficient than natural aluminum and recommend a lower baking temperature. Hopefully this will suffice.
CakeDiva, I feel I am an honest and fair person. Many retailers and cake decorators know me from the many years I have manufactured. My intentions throughout this entire ordeal has been to be a responsive and good partner to this board by supporting my company and providing the best information I have. If anyone thinks I have been other than responsive and honest in my communication on this message thread, I sincerely apologize.
Our company truly cares about the baking experience of each and every one of you. If you are not happy with our products, simply let me know. I stand behind every item we make and want each person to be happy with their decision. I want to again thank this board for the opportunity to have this forum. I feel that CC is a great resource for all of us.
Cake Diva, please let me know if you have any questions and give me a call if you have the chance. I would love to speak with you further.
I have never heard of ANY professional grade pan manufacturer giving the consumer instructions on how to use a pan (maybe Wilton does but I don't own any of those). The time and temp of baking is something that is learned by trial and error and by asking what other experienced bakers are doing.
Fortunately, I read many months ago that we should be baking at 325 degrees in ALL professional grade pans, which I have done since.
--Marianne
P.s. I love my Fat Daddio pans; they work perfectly and clean up beautifully.
Petit-four Frequent Member
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 425
Location: upstate NY
Birthday: Mar 20
Posted:
Tue May 27, 2008 7:04 pm
Yes, crazy4sugar -- I agree. I hope everyone sees that I repeatedly tried to point out cake recipes, testing, and baking times would likely need to be adjusted.
Petit-four and I have exchanged some PMs regarding this situation.
I believe it has been worked out, and I wanted to make a statement that will hopefully bring an end to the confusion of the day.
1. In hindsight I feel that a mistake was made in removing the post. This was a failure on the part of Jackie and I.
2. The removal of the post was not due to the "influence" of a vendor. Our understanding of the situation was flawed. We understood the situation to be that the comparison test was invalid due to the issue with the cook times.
In discussing this further with both Petit-four and with Greg, it is now clear to me that the test should have been allowed to stand as it was. Our failure to fully understand the issue led to the drama surrounding this issue.
No one should be to blame here other than myself and Jackie. Petit-four did nothing wrong, Fat Daddio did nothing wrong.
As I state earlier, we are in the position of trying to review lots of posts each day, and sometimes we make mistakes, this is one of those times.
I apologize for the confusion and drama this failure has caused.
Petit-four Frequent Member
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 425
Location: upstate NY
Birthday: Mar 20
Posted:
Tue May 27, 2008 7:39 pm
Thanks, Heath.
I appreciate the clarification.
Sincerely,
Petit-four
loriemoms Forum SuperStar!
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 2235
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Birthday: Feb 12
Posted:
Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:48 am
crazy4sugar wrote:
I have never heard of ANY professional grade pan manufacturer giving the consumer instructions on how to use a pan (maybe Wilton does but I don't own any of those). The time and temp of baking is something that is learned by trial and error and by asking what other experienced bakers are doing.
Fortunately, I read many months ago that we should be baking at 325 degrees in ALL professional grade pans, which I have done since.
--Marianne
P.s. I love my pans; they work perfectly and clean up beautifully.
Wow,I didnt follow this thread for a while (I came back to see if anyone had posted a good place to buy pans!) I agree, I never expected instructions with a professional pan...whenever I get a new pan, I always did a experiment cake in it to make sure it is ok...and plays well with others. I have a mix of all kinds of brands (even Wilton!) in my huge pan collection, and am always looking for sale (I even have a few old unknown brands I bought at goodwill that work beautifully!) I bake all my cakes at 325 no matter what brand and get the same results, no matter what brand. I think a lot of it has to do with your recipe and how long you beat the batter and how hot it is outside and how big your eggs were then if your pan is this brande or that brande!
I do commend all those involved that this discussion was handled very well! It is sad to see that CC felt to remove the original test..maybe put a disclaimer on it instead saying this was the opinin only of the tester? But it is true,they own this forem and they can do whatever they like with it. It won't push me away! (and boy you guys have had a rough year!!)
And shoot, Greg, you can give me free pans all you want! I aint proud! hehehe.
steplite Frequent Member
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Riverdale, Illinois
Birthday: Aug 16
Posted:
Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:18 pm
Let me put my two cents in. I've been baking a long time. Usually from scratch and only after finding this site did I start using doctored cake mixes. I've used Wilton pans mostly but I recently purchased two FD pans and I didn't see anything wrong with them. Again it goes back to personal preference. I've had cakes come out of my Wilton pans just like the ones in the test. Chocolate cake seems to crumble more and come out of the pan like the test. Again this is what happens some times. It depends on the recipe. I can't say that one pan is better than the next because it all depends on how you bake, what recipe you use and everybody oven isn't the same. Which is better? it's just like Scratch or a Mix. Which do you prefer? I grew up having cake baked in cast iron skillets. Never heard any complaints from Mom.
Petit-four Frequent Member
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 425
Location: upstate NY
Birthday: Mar 20
Posted:
Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:36 pm
Steplite and Loriemoms: Thanks for your posts. I agree that the recipe, eggs, beating time, pan greasing, and other factors play a very large part in how cakes come out of pans.
I regret the original post is still gone, but, the second sentence of the now-deleted post was: "This is my (subjective) opinion." The posting of the FD's owner's letter over my post makes my post appear inflammatory -- and the original was far from that. I think if you read the original replies you will see it was a calm, measured discussion between CC members.
My main concern was in comparing pans, seeing how the edges came out, sharing some photos, and hoping to get a sense of others' experiences. At all times I was happy to update my post, and add in helpful hints on using both ML and FD pans.
Since my post was deleted, replaced with another post, and 3 other threads were started by the FD owner about my test all within minutes of the "free pans" being offered, I think a lot of misconceptions arose among CC members.
If you look at the other threads, you will see I explain what happened, and I wanted to assure everyone I judge no one for accepting free pans. However, I wanted to make sure CC members did not think I was writing any posts to obtain free products. CC members should buy or obtain whichever pans work best for them!
I will request that this thread be locked, since it appears that CC is not going to restore the original post I wrote. I am very concerned at the misrepresentation of my character. I do not think the preface added to my post reflects the content or intent of anything I have ever written on CC. I have tried to be a helpful and non-confrontational CC member in every post I have written, and I truly appreciate all who share on CC.
Thank you to all who gave me a lot of feedback and support.
Sincerely,
Petit-four
ceshell Forum Fanatic
Joined: Feb 05, 2006
Posts: 1438
Location: Sunny Southern California
Birthday: May 01
Posted:
Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:12 pm
Although you're going to request the thread be locked, I would hate to see the whole thing deleted as it has some valuable information even in the exchanges and opinions expressed (i.e. we can get the jist of some of your original post by reading the other comments). Since they can't restore the post (I too was hoping that they would do so but understand why lost data=lost data) can you at least ask them to edit the "disclaimer" (preface)? I agree, it's rather misleading, and it's not fair to anticipate that someone should get thru 6 pages of posts before they can see that your original test was not "incorrect" "fallible" and "flawed". Sorry, but those words just make me cringe on your behalf . More power to ya, Petit-four, and sorry this whole thing unraveled like this. Your OP was the kind I just LOVE to find here on CC, "real world" tests of things whether recipes, tools, or etc.
loriemoms Forum SuperStar!
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 2235
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Birthday: Feb 12
Posted:
Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:57 am
I did see the original post and I don't think it was mean or anything...(although I have looked at Global Sugar web site several times and cannot find anything about free pans...) A lot of us feel Wilton are inferior products and I don't see those posts being banned, deleted or changed. So this does leave some thinking on how much "freedom" we have in our posts. But then again, CC does own this forem and I guess we need to follow thier rules. I still say they should have just posted a disclaimer saying this is a non scientific experiement and the opinion of the poster...
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You can attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
. More power to ya, Petit-four, and sorry this whole thing unraveled like this. Your OP was the kind I just LOVE to find here on CC, "real world" tests of things whether recipes, tools, or etc. 
