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Does anyone else have this dilemma? Now that shows like Ace of Cakes are all over the airwaves, plus the Food Network's cake challenges, how do you tell a customer that you don't have that kind of talent? It seems they are all expecting carved masterpieces...or should us less talented folks just fold up our pastry bags and go home??
elizw Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 502
Location: Cary, NC
one suggestion would be....that talent comes with a price. 99% of customers are probably not willing to pay $1000 + for a birthday cake. i read somewhere that duff's minimum is $500. i think people see them make cakes and think it's fun and easy. they don't see the years of practice and the hours/days it really takes to make the cake - the show is only 1 hour!
i've had a couple of customers ask me for a "duff cake" and when i give them a price, they decide on something less labor intensive.
MiaT Regular Member
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Long Island, NY
Birthday: Feb 14 Gallery Supporter Member
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:11 am
You could always tell them you don't have access to those kind of tools, and to rent or buy them would make their cake prohibitively expensive Then show them what you CAN do and how much more reasonable that would be.
I wish they would display pop-ups of cake prices on the show. I cant stand when I tell a customer how much those cakes costs and they dont believe me or they say something stupid like"I can understand thats what he charges but, how much would YOU charge?" As if its going to cost me less to make a cake llike those.
As if its going to cost me less to make a cake llike those.
If anything it's going to cost you more. Duff probably gets volume discounts for supplies, not to mention the revenue he's getting from the sheer quantitiy of cakes they make in a week to pay their operating expenses...and their income is not just from baking and decorating cakes. They're probably drawing some kind of salary from just being on their own t.v. show, even if it's just nominal.
I'm a big Duff fan and he and his staff certainly deserve all the fame and recognition they get, especially Geof, that boy's got talent.
justveggin Newbie
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Oklahoma City
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:01 am
I had the same thing happen to me. I met with a bride and her fiance and they said they had been watching Ace of Cakes and they figured that I could make the style of cake they wanted with very little effort and then proceeded to tell me how much she would give me for it! I literally about fell over. When I told her I wouldn't do her cake for less than $2.00 a serving she then said I could decorate a styrofoam dummy to look like their magazine and serve sheet cakes from the back room. I told her that using the styrofoam really didn't save me any decorating time at all and that if she wanted to cut the cost she should scale back the size of the cake and then use sheet cakes for the additional servings needed. (knowing she had invited 200 people but expected 500 to show) Then she asked me what about the cake top and I told her I didn't charge her for that and the servings weren't included in the price. Her eyes got real big and she said so if we don't save the top and you serve it can you take that off the price?! I, once again, about fell over!! I said are you asking me to take the cost of this 3 serving cake off the price of your cake?! That was when I politely gathered my belongings and told her I wouldn't be able to do her cake.
Unbelievable!
melcovey Newbie
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 3
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:33 am
I totaly agree, brides are getting mad out of hand with price/talent expectations lately. Last cake I did the bride wanted to a five tier cake to serve 250 people including a grooms cake for less than 300 dollars. Would not take the suggestion of sheet cakes to cut the price a bit...
<sigh>
I too think Duff should put little pop ups about price per serving on the show, I don't think it would be up to him though... I think I will cruse over to both sites and pop them an email...
I have had requests for 'chicken' shaped cakes and all kinds of things, which is cool, I like pushing the envelope, but I have to let them know it will cost more to do such things.
stacey000 Junior Member
Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 25
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:58 am
Okay, I'm know I couldn't do half as well, and not to sound like a hater, but... they also use a lot of non-edible materials on that show, such as pvc pipe. And also a lot of rice krispie molding when cake would be too difficult. Yes, they are very talented artists (I agree, esp Geof!) and I love to watch the show but I think they cheat. My sister and I were just talking about how much more impressed we are with the cakes on this site, than on that show. Even with their cheating, better access to materials and fame, I don't think they do as good of a job as many of you.
So there, you are not less talented, and you are more authentic. Oh, and yes their cakes start at $500 but I'm sure are never that low, (plus delivery) and you can also tell your customers that they charge $100 just for a design/tasting appointment, even if you don't end up getting a cake with them.
THESUGARCOW Frequent Member
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 300
Location: FLORIDA
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:12 am
stacey000 wrote:
Okay, I'm know I couldn't do half as well, and not to sound like a hater, but... they also use a lot of non-edible materials on that show, such as pvc pipe. And also a lot of rice krispie molding when cake would be too difficult. Yes, they are very talented artists (I agree, esp Geof!) and I love to watch the show but I think they cheat. My sister and I were just talking about how much more impressed we are with the cakes on this site, than on that show. Even with their cheating, better access to materials and fame, I don't think they do as good of a job as many of you.
So there, you are not less talented, and you are more authentic. Oh, and yes their cakes start at $500 but I'm sure are never that low, (plus delivery) and you can also tell your customers that they charge $100 just for a design/tasting appointment, even if you don't end up getting a cake with them.
I agree with you they cheat a lot
but my Geof ..yeah! he is the man! there!
THESUGARCOW Frequent Member
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 300
Location: FLORIDA
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:14 am
stacey000 wrote:
Okay, I'm know I couldn't do half as well, and not to sound like a hater, but... they also use a lot of non-edible materials on that show, such as pvc pipe. And also a lot of rice krispie molding when cake would be too difficult. Yes, they are very talented artists (I agree, esp Geof!) and I love to watch the show but I think they cheat. My sister and I were just talking about how much more impressed we are with the cakes on this site, than on that show. Even with their cheating, better access to materials and fame, I don't think they do as good of a job as many of you.
So there, you are not less talented, and you are more authentic. Oh, and yes their cakes start at $500 but I'm sure are never that low, (plus delivery) and you can also tell your customers that they charge $100 just for a design/tasting appointment, even if you don't end up getting a cake with them.
I agree with you they cheat a lot
but my Geof ..yeah! he is the man! there!
THESUGARCOW Frequent Member
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 300
Location: FLORIDA
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:14 am
stacey000 wrote:
Okay, I'm know I couldn't do half as well, and not to sound like a hater, but... they also use a lot of non-edible materials on that show, such as pvc pipe. And also a lot of rice krispie molding when cake would be too difficult. Yes, they are very talented artists (I agree, esp Geof!) and I love to watch the show but I think they cheat. My sister and I were just talking about how much more impressed we are with the cakes on this site, than on that show. Even with their cheating, better access to materials and fame, I don't think they do as good of a job as many of you.
So there, you are not less talented, and you are more authentic. Oh, and yes their cakes start at $500 but I'm sure are never that low, (plus delivery) and you can also tell your customers that they charge $100 just for a design/tasting appointment, even if you don't end up getting a cake with them.
I agree with you they cheat a lot
but my Geof ..yeah! he is the man! there!
indydebi Forum SuperStar!
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 14997
Location: Indianapolis IN
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:14 am
stacey000 wrote:
Okay, I'm know I couldn't do half as well, and not to sound like a hater, but... they also use a lot of non-edible materials on that show, such as pvc pipe. And also a lot of rice krispie molding when cake would be too difficult. Yes, they are very talented artists (I agree, esp Geof!) and I love to watch the show but I think they cheat. My sister and I were just talking about how much more impressed we are with the cakes on this site, than on that show. Even with their cheating, better access to materials and fame, I don't think they do as good of a job as many of you.
I'm with ya on this one. I've watched too many cake challenges in which I've asked my TV, "Where's the cake? I don't see any cake in that design?" Maybe I read the TV guide wrong and I was watching the "use everything EXCEPT cake to make it LOOK like a cake" challenge!
1nanette wrote:
I cant stand when I tell a customer how much those cakes costs and they dont believe me or they say something stupid like"I can understand thats what he charges but, how much would YOU charge?"
If I tell them "Duff gets a minimum of $500 for those cakes" and they ask "yeah, but what do YOU charge?" I'd have to respond with "a minimum of $500." Then I look confused, tilting my head to one side and ask, "Why do you think my eggs, and sugar, and supplies are cheaper? Why do you think my payroll will be lower?" Put the monkey on their back and make them try to explain why they are idiots. (It's fun to watch! Really! I have a really great time doing this! )
It's especially fun when I explain that having sheets cake "on the side" at their wedding is NOT cheaper for me to make. When they do the 20-something typical response of "really?", I turn it back on them and ask them "why do you THINK it should be cheaper?" then I systematically poke holes in every reason they put forth .... all of which came from the non-knowledgeable wedding websites who know NOTHING about making cakes.
(gosh, I LUV my job! Whaa-hahahahahaha!)
messyeater Regular Member
Joined: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 134
Location: Italy
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:18 am
Ok I haven't seen the show but I have to agree with Stacey...Duff is very good (from what I've seen from his website) but his cakes are not that much better than some of the cakes on this site (not mine obviously - he's about a trillion times better than me!)
Imagine if they had all that time, equipment and input from like twenty other expert decorators, I'm sure many CC'ers could do just as good or even better.
Sorry Duff if you're reading this!
Edited to add....have you seen the list of new york bakers on www.mywedding.com they are out of this world. I especially love the cakes by Kate Sullivan of LovinSullivanCakes wowwwwwweeee!!
Last edited by messyeater on Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Jenn2179 Frequent Member
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 417
Location: Burlington, NC
Birthday: Feb 01
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:19 am
It is just crazy how people think. I had a consultation and they wanted a cake to feed 200. The father of the bride is a doctor and mother of the bride does real estate. They make good money (my MIL is their bookkeeper). They wanted a cake with fondant. The cake they wanted with a sheet cake also I quoted at $774 + tax + delivery. She didn't want to spend over $600 yet she spent $2000 on a dress for the bride to wear for 6 hours. I had another consultation. Very small wedding. About 60 guests. They wanted wedding cake, grooms cake, and cookie favors. They are paying for the wedding themselves. I quoted over $600. She said put the contract in the mail for her to sign and give me the deposit. People just kill me. Especially when they say well I am on a budget. Well I am on a budget too.
MBoyd Junior Member
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 38
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posted:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:21 am
I look at it like this, if a client is looking for a bargain, I'm probably not the best person to make their cake. If I have talent, and I can do things that not many other people can do, I'm going to charge accordingly.
As for what you might call "cheating" - using pvc, etc. I look and what Duff and others like him do as art. Not just cake. ART. Art that breaks the rules.
If you had Monet or Picasso do your cake, that's going to cost more than having some random guy who does black velvet Elvis paintings for a living (with my apologies to those of you who like black velvet Elvis paintings..)
There are people who are willing to pay for a show-piece cake. But its a show piece and the normal cake rules might not apply. I compare it to people who are willing to buy an ice sculpture for their reception. That's art too. Is it practical? No. Is it expensive? Probably.
I say if you have the talent to be able to give people what they want (and thanks to Duff and the Food Network, more and more people want show-piece cakes) you can certainly charge more. The local grocery store bakery isn't going to be able to touch that kind of thing. It's almost a separate market.
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Then show them what you CAN do and how much more reasonable that would be.
